Saturday, 11 March 2017

History - OAC version



From the horse’s mouth


An OAC member wrote: “...Jesus was 'n sondagskool kind in die Joodse geloof. Ons sien dat Hy die Skrifgeleerdes verbaas gelaat het. 
Jesus begin die Apostel Kerk as 'n gewone lid wat 'n evangelie verkondig anders as Sy tradisioenele Joodse geloof en maak dissipels bymekaar.
Jesus, soos die Onderjaken vandag, stuur die lede (Dissipels) uit om die evangelie te verkondig (Hy maak hulle vissers van mense).
Jesus in die uitvoering van die priesterlike bedienning, leer hulle om te bid (Die Onse Vader).
In die bedienning van die Oudste/Ouderling maak Hy siekes gesond. 
As Vier Voud Amp, dryf Hy duiwels uit.
Hy word die eerste Apostel (Heb. 3 v 1) en dit is die oorspronklike ontstaan van die Ou Apostoliese Kerk wat baie storms in die geskiedenis deur gemaak het wat tot 'n evolusie...”

For those of you who don’t understand Afrikaans, this member wrote “…Jesus was a sundayschool child in the Jewish faith. We see that He left the scribes surprised.
Jesus began the Apostle Church as an ordinary member whose gospel was different to His traditional Jewish faith and gathered disciples together.

Jesus, like the Underdeacon today, sends the members (Disciples) out to preach the gospel (He makes them fishers of men).

Jesus in carrying out the priestly ministry, teach them to pray (The Lord's Prayer).

In the ministry of Eldest/Elder He heals the sick.
As Fourfold Office, He casts out demons.
He is the first Apostle (Heb. 3 v 1) and that is the original start of the Old Apostolic Church that made it through many storms in history to an evolution...”

Another OAC member wrote: “...Apostle Kabble was odeyned by Jesus through visions and dreams by the original 12 Apostels. He was then sent to Africa to spread the Gospel of God...”

The statements above speak volumes of their ignorance and total lack of Bible knowledge.

A former OAC member wrote: “...Actually the Apostolic Church believes that it is the true church that Jesus left when he was a person and that it traces its roots right back to that time. From the OAC viewpoint the Catholic Church actually separated from the original church and became adulterated with other practises (e.g. Christmas time, Easter which is actually a pagan celebration of spring and coming fertility), the Pope and fancy robes. The OAC claims to be God’s true church in earth. Now if that does not sound like the hallmark of a cult then I really do not know...” 

Growing up as an active member in the OAC, the true history of the OAC was always withheld from us. Back then we were always led to believe that the OAC could trace its roots directly back to Jesus and the apostles. It was believed that all officers in the OAC could only be chosen and placed by living “apostles”. Obviously this line of thinking assumed an uninterrupted succession of apostles since the time of Jesus. I was told that Jesus’ purpose was to start the “old apostolic” church and way of life.

The Bible is quite clear though on what Jesus’ purpose was:
  • Jesus came because of our sins so that through Him we could be saved (Matthew 20:28, Mark 2:17, Luke 19:10, John 3:16-18, John 10:10, John 12:27, Acts 3:26, 1 Timothy 1:15, 1 John 4:10).
  • Jesus came to fulfil the law (Matthew 5:17) to redeem us from the curse of the law (Romans 8:3-4, Galatians 4:4-5).
  • Jesus was born to bear witness to the truth (John 18:37) and to do the will of His Father (John 6:38, John 20:21).
  • Jesus came to be a light in the world (John 12:46).

Getting anything in writing about the OAC was especially difficult because great emphasis was always placed on face-to-face communication and the spoken word.

I remember a “priest” who was very excited to show me a succession list of “apostles”, from Jesus’ apostles all the way to Klibbe. This list re-affirmed his belief in the OAC because he confided in me that he sometimes had his doubts. I asked him where he got the list from and he said he sucked it out of his thumb. Then he explained that the thumb is the apostle and thereby implied that he got the list from the “apostle”. To be honest, I also believed that the OAC was the original church that Jesus built. I couldn’t understand why this list was being kept secret.

The reason is quite simple, a lie wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny. Many years later I realized that the list shown to me by the “priest” was a modified succession list of the founding fathers of the Roman Catholic Church to which a succession list of “apostles” was added.

In 1996 I was very surprised when someone from the New Apostolic Church was able to give me a book in print about the history of the “Apostolic Movement”. I learned more about the OAC history in print than what anybody else in the OAC could tell me face-to-face with the spoken word.

Eventually by 2009 an OAC “elder” sent me the history of the OAC by email as sent to him and approved by his “overseer”. Hence the heading “from the horse’s mouth”, here follows an OAC version of their history (English translation further down):

          Original Afrikaans:
Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging ”Apostoliese Beweging” is die term wat gebruik word om die gebeure wat oor ’n tydperk van omtrent 100 jaar tussen 1800 en 1900 plaasgevind het, te beskryf en op te som.  Hierdie gebeure het uiteindelik gelei tot die vestiging van die Ou Apostoliese Kerk van Afrika.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging ’n Groep van ongeveer 40 mense van alle vlakke van die lewe (boere, regeringsministers, verskeie kerkleraars, die hoof van die bank van Engeland, ens.) vergader in die jare 1820 in Albury in Engeland.  Die doel van hierdie byeenkomste is om ’n diepgaande ondersoek in te stel na die spontane profetiese uitinge

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1800 tot 1900 Ene Edward Irving, ’n leeraar in die Kerk van Skotland maak ’n indringende studie van die profesieë wat voorspel het dat die Apostels en profete weer verordineer sal word. Hy kom tot die gevolgtrekking dat hierdie gebeurtenis moet plaasvind sodat die Kerk weer tot volheid kan kom

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1800 tot 1900 Na die roeping van Apostel Cardale (na aanleiding van die mees onlangse Albury konferensie) is ’n verdere elf Apostels verordineer, sowel as Profete, Evangeliste, Opsieners en ander ampte.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1800 tot 1900 Irving word as ’n Opsiener in die Katolieke (beteken: “algemene”) Apostoliese Kerk verordineer. Profesieë kom sterk na vore in die Katolieke kerke in Duitsland en die Prebiteriaanse kerk in Engeland, maar word afgekeur deur die kerkamptenare van die dag.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 ’n Dokument getiteld: “Die Groot Getuienis” is saamgestel deur die twaalf verordineerde Apostels en hul Viervoudampte waarin daar ’n beroep op die hele Christendom gedoen is om te herenig; dat die fondamente van die Kerk, naamlik die Apostels en Profete weer herstel is; en dat die “koms van die Here” naby was.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Hierdie dokument het dan ook begin met die heilige drie-eenheid van God die Vader, God die Seun en God die Heilige Gees soos ons dit vandag nog beoefen en afgesluit met die Gloria Patri (ere aan die Vader en aan die Seun en aan die Heilige Gees, ens.) soos dit steeds vandag aan die einde van elke diensgeleentheid die gebruik is

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Die sakrament van die Heilige Verseëling (soos ons dit vandag ken) is weer in die Kerk ingestel – die eerste verseëling vind plaas in ’n katedraal in Londen in 1847.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Op hierdie stadium, staan die Kerk bekend onder die naam: “Vergaderd onder Apostels”, maar word later verander na die “Katolieke Apostoliese Kerk” (Onthou: “katoliek” beteken universiële of algemene en is nie verwant aan die Roomse Katolieke kerk nie).

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Ons Kerk het geen enkele mens as stigter gehad nie.  Baie mense, byvoorbeeld jongmense in Skotland, boere in Duitsland, Irving en ander konferensiegangers te Albury is gebruik deur die Gees van God om die Kerk weer tot Sy reg te laat kom en te laat herleef.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Die Katolieke Apostoliese Kerk brei vinnig uit na alle dele van die wêreld na 1834.  Die wêreld is op dié stadium verdeel in twaalf gebiede na aanleiding van die twaalf seuns/stamme van Jakob – ’n Apostel is aangestel oor elkeen van hierdie twaalf gebiede.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 Die Katolieke Apostoliese Kerk kom byna tot ’n einde met die afsterwe van Apostel Woodhouse (die laaste van die eerste twaalf Apostels) in 1901 as gevolg van die nie-verordinering van opvolger Apostels na die aanvanklik verordineerde 12 Apostels.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 In Duitsland het die Apostels egter, sedert 1863, voortgegaan om Apostels te roep en te verordineer soos die Apostels afgesterf of die Kerk uitgebrei het.  Hierdie (Duitse) Apostels het ’n groot invloed gehad op die uitbreiding van die Kerk na ander wêrelddele, veral Afrika.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Apostoliese Beweging: 1832 tot 1863 ’n Paar belangrike gebeure wat uiteindelik lei tot die  vestiging van die Kerk in Afrika, was: 1) Apostel Preuss word in 1863 as Apostel in Duitsland verordineer; 2) Evangelis Niemeyer na Australië (1883) en word Apostel (vir  Australië) (1886); 3) Evangelis Klibbe deur Apostel Niemeyer na Afrika gestuur om die Kerk in Afrika te vestig (1889); 4) Evangelis Klibbe word op 8 Julie 1893 deur Apostel Niemeyer as Apostel verordineer vir Afrika.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Evangelis Klibbe (gebore: 24 Desember 1852 in Pomeria, Duitsland) hervestig in Australië saam met ’n groep Duitse setlaars (10 September 1878).  Hier ontvang hy getuienis van Apostel Niemeyer en besluit om ’n lid van die Apostoliese Kerk te word.  Hy vorder deur die range van die Kerk se amptestruktuur en word in 1889 deur Apostel Niemeyer as ’n Evangelis verordineer met die taak om die Kerk in Afrika te vestig.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Evangelis Klibbe begin sy werk in (Suid) Afrika in Bellville in die Wes-Kaap. Hy vind dit egter baie moeilik om te kommunikeer aangesien hy slegs Duits magtig is. Hy behaal eers werklik sukses onder ’n groepie plaaslike Duitse setlaars in ’n dorpie met die naam “Berlin” in die Oos-Kaap. Evangelis Klibbe word op 8 Julie 1893 deur Apostel Niemeyer as Apostel vir Afrika verordineer.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika toon goeie vordering en die eerste verseëling word in 1893 in Southernwood gehou.  In 1911 is daar reeds 13 gevestigde gemeentes in Kaapstad, Port Elizabeth, Durban, Windhoek, Johannesburg en Pretoria.  Briewe wat Apostel Klibbe gedurende 1895 tot 1908 (via Australië en Duitsland) na Nederland stuur, getuig van die swaarkry en moeilike omstandighede in die land en in die Kerk (Anglo Boere-oorlog 1899-1902, droogtes en armoede).

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Apostel Klibbe vestig homself op 'n plaas met die naam “De Herberg” by Imvani, 160 km Noord van Oos-Londen.  Hy reis in 1908 na Europa om daar met die ander Apostels te ontmoet; hy hou dienste saam met hulle en die koerante doen goeie verslag oor hierdie tydperk en gebeure.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika In 1909 verhuis hy na Queenstown en 'n jaar later, in 1910, vestig hy en sy gesin hulle in Augustusstraat, Regents Park, Johannesburg (naby aan waar die Kerk se hoofkantoor vandag is);
Die Kerk vorder goed onder leiding van Apostel Klibbe en hy vestig die fondasie van die Kerk in Suid Afrika onder moeilike omstandighede.  Hy lê groot ywer en volharding aan die dag.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Die Kerk in Suid-Afrika toon goeie vordering met sy 13 gemeentes in 1911. Die eerste konferensie van die Kerk in Afrika word in April 1927 gehou en Viervoudampte CFW Ninow en W Campbell word op 27 Mei 1928 as Apostels verordineer en Apostel EFW Ninow in Januarie 1931.  Apostel Klibbe sterf op 22 Mei 1931.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Na 1931 is ’n verdere 45 Apostels verordineer in en vir Afrika. Die Apostolaat (vergadering van Apostels) word in 1984 gevorm en die sieletal van die Kerk groei tot twee miljoen. Die Kerk brei uit na Botswana en Mosambiek en Apostel Masinga word vir die afsonderlike distrik van Mosambiek in die Apostelamp verordineer in 1981. Die Kerk brei uit na Swaziland en die lande Noord van die Limpoporivier.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika ’n Eie bundel van liedere getiteld: “Sing Emmanuel” word in 1987 deur die Apostolaat goedgekeur en word in 1997 versprei. Die Kerk stig ook ’n welsynsnetwerk en ’n begrafnisfonds.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Die Konferensie van Apostels word in 1995 byeengeroep.  Tydens hierdie konferensie word die Kerk in Afrika en in die res van die wêreld in “provinsies” verdeel. Gedurende hierdie jaar word daar ook kontak gemaak met die Apostoliese Beweging in Europa.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Die Kerk brei buite Afrika uit – die eerste diens buite Afrika vind in Mei 1997 in London, Engeland plaas. Gedurende 1997 tot 2000 word gemeentes in Australië, Nieu-Zeeland, Amerika en Kanada gevestig

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Die eerste verseëling en verordinering van ’n amp deur die Kerk buite Afrika, vind op 2 November 1997 in London plaas.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Tydperk Na 1889: Die Kerk in (Suid) Afrika Die Kerk brei uit na die Europese vasteland en gemeentes van die Kerk word in Nederland en België gestig.  Die eerste verseëling en verordinering van ampte in Europa deur die Ou Apostoliese Kerk van Afrika, vind op 23 September 2001 in Arnhem plaas

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Kerk in Afrika: Naamsveranderinge Vanweë verskeie redes, ondergaan die Kerk in Afrika verskeie naamsveranderinge gedurende haar vormings- en groeijare. Ter hersiening, die Kerk (in die moderne tydperk) begin as die “Apostoliese Beweging” in die vroeë 1800s en staan bekend as “Vergaderd Onder Apostels” en die “Katolieke (i.e. Algemene) Apostoliese Kerk” gedurende die middel 1800s.

Kerkgeskiedenis: Die Kerk S. Afrika: Naams-veranderinge Met die aankoms van Evangelis Klibbe (1889 tot 1911) staan die Kerk bekend as die: “Apostoliese Kerk” as gevolg van die Apostoliese Beweging. Vanaf 1911 tot 1926: “Nuwe Apostoliese Kerk (Afrika)”. Na 1926 tot onlangs: “Die Ou Apostoliese Kerk van Afrika”. Met die herbekendstelling van die Kerk in ander lande, is die agtervoegsel “van Afrika” weggelaat.

English translation:
Church history: The Apostolic Movement “Apostolic Movement” is the term used to describe and summarize the events that took place over approximately 100 years between 1800 and 1900. These events eventually led to the establishment of the Old Apostolic Church of Africa.

Church history: The Apostolic Movement A group of about 40 people from all walks of life (farmers, government ministers, several church ministers, the head of the bank of England, etc.) assembled in the years 1820 in Albury in England. The purpose of these gatherings is the profound enquiries into the spontaneous prophetic outpourings.
Celebrating 20 years in the UK this year (2017). Who's bluffing who?
Church history: The Apostolic Movement 1800 to 1900 One Edward Irving, a minister in the Church of Scotland made a probing study of the prophecies that predicted that the Apostles and prophets would be ordained again. He came to the conclusion that this event must take place so that the Church could reach fullness again.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1800 to 1900 After calling Apostle Cardale (according to the most recent Albury conference) a further eleven Apostles are ordained and prophets, evangelists, overseers and other offices.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1800 to 1900 Irving is ordained as a bishop in the Catholic (meaning "general") Apostolic Church. Prophecies come to the fore in the Catholic churches in Germany and Prebiterian church in England, but are rejected by the church officials of the day.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 a document entitled "The Great Testimony" was compiled by the twelve ordained Apostles and their Fourfold officers and a call was made to all Christianity to unite; that the foundations of the Church, namely the apostles and prophets were restored; and the "coming of the Lord" was near.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 This document was also started with the holy trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit as we still practice today and ended with the Gloria patrí (honor to the father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, etc..) as still used today at the end of every service opportunity

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 The sacrament of the Holy Sealing (as we know it today) was reintroduced in the Church - our first sealing took place in a cathedral in London in 1847.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 At this stage, the church is known under the name "gathered under apostles", but later changed to the "Catholic Apostolic Church" (Remember: "catholic" means universal or general and not related to the Catholic church).

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 Our church had no single person as founder. Many people, for example, young people in Scotland, farmers in Germany, Irving and other conference attendees at Albury were used by the Spirit of God to bring the Church to His right and to be revived.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 The Catholic Apostolic Church is growing rapidly in all parts of the world after 1834. The world is divided at this point into twelve areas following the twelve sons / tribes of Jacob - An apostle is appointed for each of these twelve areas.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 The Catholic Apostolic Church almost came to an end with the death of Apostle Woodhouse (the last of the first twelve Apostles) in 1901 due to the non-ordination of successor Apostles after the first ordained 12 Apostles.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 In Germany however the Apostles, since 1863, continued to call Apostles and ordained them as the Apostles died or the Church expanded. These (German) Apostles had a great influence on the expansion of the Church to other parts of the world, especially Africa.

Church History: The Apostolic Movement: 1832 to 1863 A number of important events that eventually lead to the establishment of the Church in Africa were: 1) Apostle Preuss is ordained as Apostle in Germany in 1863; 2) Evangelist Niemeyer to Australia (1883) and becomes Apostle (Australia) (1886); 3) Evangelist Klibbe sent by Apostle Niemeyer to Africa to establish the Church in Africa (1889); 4) Evangelist Klibbe on 8 July 1893 ordained by Apostle Niemeyer as Apostle for Africa.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa Evangelist Klibbe (born 24 December 1852 in Pomeria, Germany) resettled in Australia with a group of German settlers (10 September 1878). Here he received testimony from Apostle Niemeyer and decided to become a member of the Apostolic Church. He progresses through the ranks of the Church's office structures and in 1889 is ordained by Apostle Niemeyer as an Evangelist with the task of establishing the Church in Africa.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa Evangelist Klibbe began his work in (South) Africa Bellville in the Western Cape. However, he found it very difficult to communicate because he spoke only German. He was only really successful among a group of local German settlers in a village called "Berlin" in the Eastern Cape. Evangelist Klibbe on 8 July 1893 is ordained by Apostle Niemeyer as Apostle for Africa.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa shows good progress and the first sealing is held in Southernwood in 1893. In 1911 there are already 13 established congregations in Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, Durban, Windhoek, Johannesburg and Pretoria. Letters by Apostle Klibbe during 1895 to 1908 (sent via Australia and Germany) to the Netherlands, testify of the hardships and difficult circumstances in the country and in the Church (Anglo Boer War from 1899 to 1902, drought and poverty).

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa Apostle Klibbe establishes himself on a farm called "De Herberg" at Imvani, 160 km north of East London. He traveled in 1908 to Europe to meet with the other Apostles; he has services with them and the newspapers do good report on this period and events.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa In 1909 he moved to Queenstown and a year later, in 1910, he settled with his family in Augustus Street, Regents Park, Johannesburg (near where the church's headquarters are today);
The Church is progressing well under the leadership of Apostle Klibbe and he established the foundation of the Church in South Africa under difficult circumstances. He put in great zeal and persistence.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa The Church in South Africa made good progress with its 13 communities in 1911. The first conference of the Church in Africa is held on April 1927 and the Fourfold officers CFW Ninow and W Campbell are ordained as Apostles on 27 May 1928 and Apostle EFW Ninow on January 1931. Apostle Klibbe died on 22 May 1931.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa After 1931 a further 45 Apostles are ordained in and for Africa. The Apostolate (meeting of Apostles) is formed in 1984 and the number of souls in the Church grows to two million. The Church spreads to Botswana and Mozambique and Apostle Masinga is ordained as Apostle for the separate district of Mozambique in 1981. The Church expands into Swaziland and the countries north of the Limpopo River.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa An own collection of hymns titled "Sing Emmanuel" is approved by the Apostolate in 1987 and distributed in 1997. The Church also establishes a charity network and a funeral fund.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa The Conference of Apostles is called in 1995. During this conference the Church in Africa and in the rest of the world is divided into "provinces". During this year contact is also made with the Apostolic Movement in Europe.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa The Church spreads out beyond Africa - the first service outside Africa is held on May 1997 in London, England. During 1997 to 2000 communities in Australia, New Zealand, America and Canada are established

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa The first sealing and ordination of an office by the Church outside Africa, takes place on 2 November 1997 in London.

Church History: Period After 1889: The Church in (South) Africa The Church spreads to the European continent and congregations of the Church are founded in the Netherlands and Belgium. The first sealing and ordination of officers in Europe by the Old Apostolic Church of Africa, takes place on 23 September 2001 in Arnhem.

Church History: The Church in Africa: Name Changes Due to various reasons, the Church in Africa undergoes several name changes during its formation and growth years. To review, the Church (in the modern era) began as the "Apostolic Movement" in the early 1800s which was known as "gathered under apostles" and "Catholic (i.e. General) Apostolic Church" during the mid-1800s.

Church History: The Church S. Africa: Name-changes With the arrival of Evangelist Klibbe (1889 to 1911) the Church is known as the: "Apostolic Church" because of the Apostolic Movement. From 1911 to 1926: "New Apostolic Church (Africa)". After 1926 until recently: "The Old Apostolic Church of Africa". With the relaunch of the Church in other countries, the suffix "Africa" is omitted.

The OAC version approved by the “overseer” leaves out a lot of details and these omissions give a false impression of the true origins of the OAC. There is no mention of any schisms and gives the impression that the OAC is the same church ever since the 1800’s. Apparently if you don't believe the OAC's version, then you're accused of believing "alternative facts".

The Constitution of the OAC (2.2) states: “...THE CHURCH, established by JESUS CHRIST according to the Holy Scriptures, revived in Europe in the 19th century and was established in South Africa in 1894...” and then states “...the original constitution of THE CHURCH as amended from 1927 to 2014...” at the end (25) of the document.

The OAC Netherland Tax Information document (9) concludes: “...The Old Apostolic Church in the Netherlands is part of an international not-for-profit organisation that has maintained significant annual growth from both a membership and a temporal asset point of view throughout its existence of more than 120-years...”

The OAC’s list of “apostles” since the 19th century simply does not existThe OAC was registered as a church for the very first time in 1927. The OAC’s first “apostle” was Carl George Klibbe who was formally excommunicated in 1913 by the New Apostolic Church that ordained him in 1893 as an “apostle”. The same New Apostolic Church whose list of “apostles” only goes back as far as 1863 and whose “apostles” were not ordained or recognized by the Catholic Apostolic Church.

History:
1 Corinthians 12:24-25 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

It took several years for reality to dawn on me because I was in denial. It was a difficult pill for me to swallow to realize I belonged to a “mushroom club” (kept in the dark and fed bull twang).
 
I first had to crush my rose tinted glasses to see the truth

I thank God every day for His Word; the truth has set me free. The good news is that there is only one REAL Jesus and He is the ONLY Messiah.


38 comments:

  1. So, You got hold of someone's PowerPoint notes. You are a real genius!
    What would be the "Alternative Facts", if you do not agree with this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PowerPoint notes, really? Like I said in my post, the “elder” sent the history to me via email, not PowerPoint. Maybe the PowerPoint you saw was copied from an email or the “elder” copied the info from a PowerPoint. Either way, it was approved by the “overseer” for distribution. You obviously saw the same thing on a PowerPoint somewhere. Genius? If you say so :-)

      Delete
    2. To Anonymous and the oac,

      JESUS turned water into wine.
      JESUS walked on water
      JESUS heald the blind
      JESUS raised the dead
      this is only a few miracles he did.JESUS body is the church.

      Your underdeacon jesus can do nothing.
      Your priest jesus can do nothing
      your elder/overseer/apostle jesus can do nothing.
      That is why you say it is spiritual.Because non of you can do what my JESUS did.

      My JESUS called 12 Apostles and send them. Non of your jesus can do it. My JESUS was raised up from the dead after 3 days. Non of your so called jesus can do it.

      So stop compare yourself with my JESUS. (HE was and is sinless) Acts 4:12 (KJV)

      12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
      (not even the oac) Please open your eyes---read the Bible and get saved.

      Delete
  2. To The oac,

    Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus walked on water. Jesus healed the blind. Jesus raised the dead. And many more miracles did Jesus do.

    Your underdiaken jesus can't do nothing. Your priest jesus can't do nothing. Your elder/overseer and apostle jesus can't do nothing what my JESUS did. My JESUS "Body"
    is a church and is Holy. What is you jesus body?

    That is why you say it is spiritual, because non of all your "jesus" can do anything like the real JESUS did .

    Start believing in the real JESUS (there is only ONE)
    and get saved. Acts 4:12(KJV)

    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Open your eyes and read the Bible

    ReplyDelete
  3. Whose the chief of this AOC you are talking about here.........coz the only apostle here in SA you talk about is klibb what happen after him

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    1. I’ve never heard of the AOC…Ninow and Campbell etc. took over the mantle from Klibbe. The Bible only speaks of twelve apostles of the Lamb (Revelation 21:14), I’ve never read about Klibbe or Ninow or Campbell or Boshoff in the Bible, their names aren’t in the Bible…

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    2. To son of man .You don't have to worry about klibbe and his followers . Listen what the LORD said.
      And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

      Matthew 24:v 5+24-27
      5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


      Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

      24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

      25 Behold, I have told you before.

      26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

      Please There is one and only one to follow, JESUS is the way. NOT the apostle.

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    3. The CHIEF of the OAC is the Great Apostle and High Priest Jesus Christ.
      Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
      Joh 20: 21

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    4. So you claim, but the “Jesus” that OAC members believe in is not the one and same historical and Biblical Jesus that Christians believe in. OAC members don’t believe Jesus will return in like manner as He ascended because they believe they are Jesus Christ. The apostolate of the OAC decided in 2001 that Jesus was a physical person!? The words spoken by Jesus were to His disciples who were physically present before He ascended. Go read John 20:21 again in context with the rest of the chapter, you’ll see they were spoken long before 1927 by a physical Jesus, the only Savior and Messiah. Christianity didn’t pause and wait for Klibbe to arrive in South Africa to start the OAC in 1927. Jesus’ apostles spread the gospel long before the OAC, their names are written in the foundations and the Holy Spirit continues without titles and labels.

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    5. to Anonymous,
      Why the confusion. iT is so logic. When my boss(from work) send me with a message I become the messenger and my boss is still the boss.

      When Jesus send the 12 Apostles they become the messengers, Jesus is still Jesus the Lord.The son of GOD, JESUS is the WORD. Your Apostle might tell you people that he is a jesus But he can't be JESUS the Lord/SON/WORD.

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  4. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
    Heb 3:1.

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    1. Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. Heb 3:2-3

      We can paste random verses all day long without any explanation till we've posted the whole Bible... Did you notice that Hebrews 3:1 is the only verse in the whole Bible which spells Apostle with a capital A and it refers only to Jesus, nobody else?

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    2. Apostle means (someone that is send) Jesus was send by GOD the Father. And Jesus Become the High Priest by fulfill the prophecy. Now This Jesus of our profession sits at the right hand of GOD the Father from where he will come AGAIN. Consider him. he is Christ Jesus. not your apostle.

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  5. The word; Apostle means "one sent forth". Synonyms for the word is advocate, apologist, proponent, exponent, promoter, propagandist, spokesperson, spokesman, spokeswoman, supporter, upholder, champion; campaigner, crusader, pioneer; adherent, believer; booster.
    In its broadest sense, an Apostle is any believer that promotes the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It not only refers to a single person who holds the title.
    Jesus Christ IS (present tense) the Apostle sent forth by the Father, while Apostles is sent out by Jesus Christ, in the same manner as He was sent by the Father.
    Keep in mind that the Son was there from the beginning:
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
    John 1:1-5
    Concerning your statement that "Christianity didn't pause..", neither did God. The Son, Jesus Christ was there from the beginning. That means that the idea that Christianity or Christ was born 2000 years ago is flawed. If it were true, than God is changeable.
    "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."
    Heb 7:3
    You might state that this refers to Melchizedek. Yes, but Melchizedek means King and Priest, or Kingpriest.
    Jesus Christ is eternal, and therefore his mission and presence is eternal.
    As Son of God, he is of the same substance as the Father. Therefore all-present.
    The fact that there were no Apostles for roughly 1260 years does not mean that Christ was taken away from us. It only means that man turned away from God.

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    1. The word “apostle” means “one sent forth” etc. The synonyms for “apostle” are not spelled with a capital letter unless the sentence begins with that word. Hebrews 3:1 is referring to the ONE and ONLY Jesus.

      Christ was born in human form some 2000 years ago, the term “Christianity” could not have existed before then. This does not mean that God changes, its people that change. His prophets prophesied of the Messiah and Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies.

      “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
      John 1:14

      If you read the whole of Hebrews 7 you will see that Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (Heb 7:17) and that He has an unchangeable priesthood (Heb 7:23-28). Jesus is King and Priest, nobody else can claim that title.

      Jesus had to go away so that He could send the Comforter (Holy Spirit).
      John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

      He is with us through the Holy Spirit.

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  6. "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
    Mat 28: 18-20
    The above text is known as the Great Commission. The Apostles mentioned in the Bible did not complete their task. Not one of them reached the Aztecs or Mayans, or the Indonesian people, or the Australian Aborigines. Their task was unfulfilled.

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    1. The Great Commission has never ended, the apostles laid the foundation and that is why the twelve apostles of the Lamb have their names in the twelve foundations of the wall of the holy Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10-14). Notice once again that the verse does not refer to “hundreds of Apostles”, but the “twelve apostles” of the Lamb. Millions of people are born each day, so obviously those self same twelve physical apostles chosen by Jesus would not have reached everybody. The foundation does not need to be laid again; Christians just continue building on the foundation that was already laid by the prophets and apostles.

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  7. Did you notice my other comments that you have failed to approve or deleted?
    Says a lot about who you are!

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    1. No, I didn’t notice any other comments besides those I have already published? Please check again. If they’re not published within five minutes of you posting them, then it could mean that I’m not manning my blog every 5 minutes 24/7. Patience dude!

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  8. Pentecostal Pastor, Roger Sapp in his book; The Last Apostles on Earth, mentions 24 Apostles in the New Testament.

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    1. Beloved apostle John in his book Revelations, mentions 12 apostles of the Lamb in the New Jerusalem. In a broader sense we are all messengers of the Good News of Jesus Christ. You don’t need to carry the title of “Messenger” to be a messenger.

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  9. Let me refer you to the first article in the Belgic Confession that states:
    We all believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that there is a single and simple spiritual being, whom we call God—eternal,
    incomprehensible, invisible, unchangeable, infinite, almighty; completely wise, just, and good, and the overflowing source of all good.
    ...then compare it with article 8, also of the Belgic Confession:
    In keeping with this truth and Word of God we believe in one God,
    who is one single essence, in whom there are three persons, really, truly, and eternally distinct according to their incommunicable properties—namely, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    The Father is the cause, origin, and source of all things, visible as well as invisible.
    The Son is the Word, the Wisdom, and the image of the Father.
    The Holy Spirit is the eternal power and might, proceeding from the Father and the Son.
    Nevertheless, this distinction does not divide God into three,
    since Scripture teaches us that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each has a distinct subsistence distinguished by characteristics— yet in such a way that these three persons are
    only one God.
    It is evident then that the Father is not the Son and that the Son is not the Father, and that likewise the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.
    Nevertheless, these persons, thus distinct, are neither divided nor fused or mixed together.
    For the Father did not take on flesh, nor did the Spirit,
    but only the Son.
    The Father was never without the Son, nor without the Holy Spirit,
    since all these are equal from eternity, in one and the same essence.
    There is neither a first nor a last, for all three are one in truth and power, in goodness and mercy.

    In reference to above articles, it is clear, that Jesus Christ is eternal, just as the Father is eternal, also omnipresent an unchangable.
    So, if Jesus Christ can go away somewhere else, He is not part of the Godhood, because God can not change or move away.
    The statement that Jesus Christ went away, and will someday return is in contradiction to basic Christian beliefs.
    The Belgic Confession is one of the three basic fundamental documents on which Protestant Christianity is based.

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    1. Let me refer you to the Bible which states:

      Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

      1 John 5:6-8 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

      The Word was there from the very beginning and through the Word everything was created and it was the Word that took on flesh and became Jesus Christ our Messiah. He descended from Heaven and after He accomplished His purpose He returned to Heaven to sit on the right hand side of the Father from where He will return again. He is present in the form of the Holy Spirit and His words abide with us.

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    2. ...therefore changeable, and could not be God.

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    3. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

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    4. precisely my point. Jesus Christ can not change, and could not go somewhere else and then return. Jesus Christ is ever-present, not a historical figure. So is his rule of His Church.

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    5. That’s the same as saying that when a king goes to sit in his castle, he can no longer be a king because he’s no longer the same person. Go speak to your “owergestelde”, your apostolate decided in 2001 that Jesus is a historical figure.

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    6. You admit that Jesus is unchangeable, why then don’t you believe Jesus will return in like manner as He ascended?

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  10. The Biblical book of Revelations, or better known as The Book of Revelation was not written by the Apostle John, but by John of Patmos, a different author.
    Many Christians make the mistake to attribute the book to John the Apostle due to the pseudohistorical book by Eusebius.

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    1. It was not written by Apostle John, it was written by John who was the messenger by writing the book of Revelations.

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    2. You are contradicting yourself now. You stated earlier: "Beloved apostle John in his book Revelations..."

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    3. I don’t think I contradicted myself at all. Did you notice that I wrote “apostle” with small letters and did you not say an “apostle” in its broader sense is any believer that promotes the Gospel of Jesus Christ (i.e. messenger)?

      The evidence for John of Patmos being the same John, the son of Zebedee and apostle, is based on Papias (c.125), Justin Martyr (AD 110-165), Irenaeus (AD 120-200), the Muratorian fragment, Marcion Hippolytus (AD 170-235), Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-211), Tertullian (AD 155-220) and Origen (AD 185-254). Then there are John’s “fingerprints”. In both John and Revelations, Jesus is referred to as the Lamb, the Word and the true witness. The composition of Revelations was only seriously questioned by modern liberal criticism, the further away from the first century one gets; the less reliable the evidence gets for the correctness of any claim.

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  11. The author of Revelation (no s) (Rev 4) described the throne of God, surrounded by the four living creatures (fourfold ministry= Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist and Overseer), and 24 Elders.

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    1. That's your interpretation. But you're digressing off the topic of this post which is the OAC's version of their history.

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    2. Returning to the history. The above mentioned document was indeed an Overseer's notes for a Power Point presentation (an early version of it). Another document was later distributed with more detail and a complete list of Apostles since 1833. That later document do mention the so-called "court case" (in actuality a settlement", and mentions all Apostles that was removed from office (4 mentioned, a fifth was also removed a few years ago), and the churches they founded.

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    3. As time progresses, more details and versions are sure to follow.

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    4. To Anonymous,

      Where do you see in the bible that the 4 beast's in Revelation is the so called "4 fold office" of your church

      Beginning at the 6th verse of Revelation 4, there is a detailed description of "the four beasts".
      There is a symbolism here that demands close attention.

      The First beast was like a LION
      The Second was like a CALF
      The Third was like the face of a MAN
      The fourth was like a flying EAGLE.

      To understand the meaning of these symbols, we need to go back to the Old Testament. In Ezekiel 1, we have a description of "four living creatures". In Ezekiel 1 : 10, we are told that on the right side they had the face of a man, and the face of a lion. On the left side they had the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. These are the identical symbols of the Living Creatures in Revelation 4. As in Revelation so in Ezekiel "there was by them the likeness of a throne" (Ezek 1: 26). In both visions the glory of the Lord is manifested (Ezek 1: 28). In both cases there is a rainbow about the throne,

      Notice that John does not describe these beasts except to liken them to something that we would be familiar with. Especially notice the words "like" and "as" in Rev 4 : 7. The first part of Verse 8 adds to this description when it says, "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within".

      While John could only describe the beasts by comparison, he is very precise in telling what they do, And they rest not day and night, saying, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY LORD GOD ALMIGHTY,which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev 4 :8).
      NOTE: -TO COME

      I read nothing about the oac or their 4 fold office






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    5. To Anonymous,

      Returning to your history, don't kid yourself, the supposed list of “apostles” since 1833 weren’t all OAC “apostles”. The OAC list of “apostles” can only begin with Klibbe who was formally excommunicated in 1913 by the same church that ordained him in 1893 as an “apostle”. The same church whose list of “apostles” only goes back as far as 1863 and whose “apostles” were not ordained or recognized by the Catholic Apostolic Church.

      Putting a Rolls-Royce label on your go-cart doesn’t make it a genuine Rolls-Royce just because it has wheels and a label.

      There is only ONE Apostle and He physically died on the cross for you. His name is Jesus.

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